Integrity in Sport Series - Episode 5

This episode is brought to you in partnership with

Judie Saunders -  https://askllp.com/attorneys/judie-a-saunders

Katherine Starr - www.katherinestarr.com

Transcript

0:41

how are you today, Katherine? I'm glad that we are going to have another conversation today. We're going to focus on how to make space for athletes so that they can be in integrity with themselves. And just that opening title that. The topic we're going to discuss is multilayered, but I know it has a singular message and theme. So really our theme is how do we get athletes into integrity? So to start, can you define for the listeners, what do you mean by what are we talking about when we say the word integrity? So what I mean by integrity is that the athlete is able to communicate effectively and clearly. And they're not having to lie to themselves about what's going on, what their experiences are. And, there's like different aspects of it. So there's as an athlete in training. So when you've done an a performance and you can get out of the pool, it can communicate with your coach or even to yourself. So when you're, re-evaluating. You're you know, what that race was like for you or what your competition was like, that there's moments in your, when you're training. You have opportunities, I think, to go in a few different ways, right? Given to the voices or to push through the voices. And, and how did you handle that? And it's did you listen to the lies? You're telling yourself about being tired and you push through it. Like I can swimming, they'll talk about when the piano comes in or in certainly I would have a thought came up that said, Oh, I'm tired. Boom. I'm out. So I'm out of that flow. Then I feel my muscles compound down and, and it's. Yeah. Arduous to finish and get to the wall. Yeah. And so there's a choice that I have when that happens and people don't really realize that they have a choice. And so for me, what I mean by being integrity is that I didn't succumb to whatever that was. And I stayed in. Like in my athletic self. And I drove through it with the force of that athlete that's in me and, and and it also comes into play, through, through a workout where you can get out of your workout and you can say, I, I performed and I participated in. Into the best of my, physical being and self in that practice. I didn't, even if my times were fast, like inside, I know what was going on. Like I know if I was slacking, I know if I was pushing hard, I know what was going on and there's opportunities to create communication, but from the athlete to the coach, during those. During those times. And that's why on the coach side of things, it's really important to have that open channel, to be able to receive this information and not just have here's your set. I really don't want any feedback. We want to open that up. And how this sort of compounds and moves itself from a performance standpoint. Like from the integrity of being an in performance that way too, when the dynamics of abuse start to develop that same voice structure is we know what's going on. Like I know. And even if I'm in this, Oh, my coach is creepy, but I shut it down. I don't even listen to it. And that's often why I say, give an athlete. A voice is because I now have made, I've told myself. That whatever experience I've had. I had to have an, a thoroughly evaluated internally. Cause I don't know how, or I've made a decision that you know, that the adults that are in my life would not be able to respond to it. Do anything about it or, just simply don't care about me, which is really, isn't a true statement. It's just one that I. Certainly developed along the line, making a determination. This person doesn't care. That person doesn't care. Therefore, I can't say anything. I've made some choices. So I'm out of integrity with what my truth is. So I've now changed my. My true feelings to accommodate what I believe the external world is how they're going to respond and what they're gonna do, to the situation like I've made those choices regardless of taking action. And I may have made those choices based on often you'll see a friend that's gone through it, like a teammate you're witnessing a teammate having, some sort of an abuse experience. But now I'm going to watch all those adults and how they respond. And then I'm going to make that determination to say, Oh, these people aren't safe that I can't speak up. So what you've done is you've you're you, the system has really forced that athlete into silence and so in order for an athlete to be in integrity with themselves, we need to be able to open up the system. And have like clarity and click in responses to situations that are harmful. But right now, the way it's set up is I have to I speak about myself. I, in the sense of when I was going, growing up and I was witnessing the, so the officials were very unrelatable. To be able to respond to. And in a lot of that has certainly changed to some degree where at least tried to but then there's also the inability to even communicate what your experiences are to begin with. And that's where it's not, and it's not a judgment in the athlete's side of things is that they haven't been developed the skills and the tools to be able to pull out. Like what their experience is. And so that's something that I'm going to work with athletes on, so we can dig a little deeper into like raising up the voice that gets so suppressed and as an athlete, and that's part of. Like when I say, like being in performance integrity with your, with yourself is you don't necessarily need to shove the voice down. You just need to be able to hear it and make a different choice. And and we've been taught to shove it down so you don't even hear it. So you don't the dangers, they don't even come up. They don't even come up the system. They're not even there. And I had written about that in that Forbes article just about myself, is that the higher that the dream was like the softer, the voice was gonna be for me to even respond to it. When you said so many things. So wait, let's, let me tease out some of these. Amazing points that you made because you've really covered what we're going to talk about from beginning to end. So I want to back up and highlight some of the points. So when you first started talking and we've defined now what it means to be out of integrity and that what I've taken from what you said is that you're not in truth with the inner voice, with your intuition, with your instincts, you're out of alignment with that. And then you started to go on to define that. That I'm out of integrity that misalignment. It bleeds into other aspects of your life. So it may start, or you may notice it in athletic sport, but then it also can come up when an abusive situation presents itself. So now you may be, you're not in the pool or you're not in the gym, but there is some abusive situation that's coming up and that voice has been silenced. Talk to us about when do you and your experience both personal and professional. Do you believe that being out of integrity begins? What's the root of it? What's the foundation of it. Where does it start? So I would say that it started first of all, the dynamic between a coach and an athlete is actually where I think it starts. So there's the. The myth in the system, myth, lie, whatever you want to refer to it is because you have this power in differentiation. And I have been taught to do as the coach says, right? So there's this like level of respect. That that's this level of discipline that's required on the athletes side at a very young age. And of course you want to perform and you want to do it right. And it's in, it's not about the disrespect of the coach, but what it, but that's what, where it starts is your experiences in how you're perceiving this environment. Is one way, right? It's the coaches in charge, you do what the coach says, and there's what happens is that you've lost your ability to even have any critical thinking as a young person and teach them critical thinking, frankly, and teach them how to. Take in experiences that don't feel right, because we've already set up the system to your coaches, the adults. And you fall. And because you're a small child developing and your talent, which you have so much passion for that, you're going to. Continue to foster what you love, like what you love inside of yourself, which is this athletic gift that you've been given and it gives you it gives you purpose and meaning and in many different ways, socially, physically, mentally, there's many different ways that passion for fills itself. And so the, so that the system is set up to, okay, I gotta protect my passion. And so therefore and I have to do what he says because it's developing this part of me and it, and so then from there, like that's where the voice starts to get softer and quieter. And and the way that the system is set up to make it at a quieter voice means that you've now become susceptible to be abused. Cause when you haven't taught the person how to speak up and what they're really experiencing. And this also includes for injuries, right? Cause you're like you start feeling these things, but you're not given or that we don't foster the environment to be able to speak up and say something like, Oh, I don't have time to do 10 different workouts or I don't have time to individually worry about what an eight year old is experiencing. That's like the mentality. So what you're talking about and to put it into context as you were shifting, and I think that this is important point when we use the word now system. So we talked about integrity. We talked about what can be the root cause of being out of integrity, but now can you give us. What you seem to be, what is quote unquote, the system, the current system, the system, as it was when you were in your athletic peak career. And I dare say the system has it from my point of view as a practitioner, it has not changed very much. What is the system? Give us a visual or an analogy. So the system, is it? First of all, I it's all about power, right? So who has the power? So your coach has the power, the national governing bodies have the power. And now with the, in the United States, you have the center for safe sport who has the power, but the other. Aspects of power. It's about decision-making to change, like who has the ability to change that sports environment. And so what's important to me is to bring the power locally. And why say for athletes and the importance of being a safer athletes club. And we can talk more about that as far as the structure of it goes, but why it's important to bring that locally is that you can start to develop the power changes, right? Because we're bringing the power and changing the dynamic to the athlete, with having an athlete welfare advocate there and. And now they're in a position where they actually can speak, like they can share, like what's going on in the dynamic, the way the coach is treating them differently or the way that cause it's not just about getting text messages or just that piece of it. There's this whole like, There's this whole time before you even get to the text messages, get to that direct communication that we haven't even addressed. Like we haven't even and that's where the athlete is experiencing something and they're not talking about it because there's no person to talk about it. There's no actionable legal structure, like nothing's happened yet. And so it's how do we change? From when the nothings happened and that's where the system changes. Okay. No, I was, I'm only cutting you off because you're bringing up a very good point and that's powerful again, the power. So the system is the power. So then tell me this, Katherine why is it that the athlete. Or no, that presupposes the answer. I think this is a better way to say it. Would you agree or disagree that currently the athlete has shares any part of that power? Any part of that power structure? No, that's the that's the problem. So the athlete doesn't share any of the power structure and then, but let's, I've been in situations where, and I'm sure you've. Yeah. I heard these stories. It's common where some of the athletes are like, this is totally fine. Like they think the environment is like serving to them as an athlete, which is often pressure from their family structure that, that this is just the way their family dynamic is. And it's not conducive for other apps. So then you have, and so there's this. And it's not about creating or making this soft, that's it's about creating an environment. That's where the athlete. Can be in integrity with themselves and whatever that is, because I also think there's clarity on the athletes side, but just from a power sort of thing is the athlete can have power when they're clear about why they're there. And what's the point? What are they pursuing in this. In this path. And that's where I think the athlete gains their power. And if they're there because they're pleasing their parents or they're there because their best friend is there and they just want to be there because their best friend is there. Those are all perfectly fine reasons, but we also can't allow so when whatever, the reason is perfectly fine. But we can't allow your lack of you're there, like you're hated, there's many athletes that hate it and they can't tell their parents that they hate being here, and it's because of the, their brothers there are there, you know what I mean? Due to reasons which puts that athlete out of integrity, which also makes them vulnerable to being abused because they can't speak up when they need to speak to be in this truthful place. So they're losing their power. Just by not being in a, it's not being truthful to who they are as a person. They may just want to sit around and read books and go off and be a genius with required to to come to sport every day. And so it's like understanding. Let's be clear and go, okay, I'm not going to be an Olympian. And it's also part of the power is in the goal that you have for the athlete. So some athletes is totally appropriate to have to go. I'm going to be an Olympian, that's like an a T and I get so many people who, Oh, my kid's great. They're going to be an Olympian one day and they're not, it's not, it's really, it's not a truthful statement and you don't want to break a parent's heart, but that takes you out of your truth. And if you're not in your truth, you're not in your power. And so from a. Athletes standpoint, like for you to be like, you know what, I am here just for my friends. Let everybody know. So the parents know and that's where I think that this like collection of people lying to each other is what is part of the problem. So how do you get your power? You get your power by being truthful. And and sometimes you don't even know what it is. And I think from a coaches standpoint, certainly we get college. There's a lot of contractual pressures that put coaches in that position. So you don't have the leisure of I just want to be I'm here because I need a full scholarship, but I'm not here because I really want to swim, but it's, I have this talent. To get what I want, which is I want to be a doctor, whatever the case may be. So it creates this misalignment that throws off like the, it that's where then the power struggle starts to happen. And so our system is the current system is one that is rooted in power. It is fed by the misalignment and are collectively being out of integrity. Everyone from coaches to athletes. It is it's continuing to grow or exist in kind of a biosphere where our voices, the athletes, voices are pushed down their silence. So then tell us, and you were saying that, how do we then, how are we you're giving us a Glint now, how do we start to change? Quote, unquote, the system, the power structure. And it sounds like the antidote to that is truth. Who else besides the athlete who are the other stakeholders that have to be truth that have to be in alignment, have to come back into integrity. Who are the other stakeholders in this structure we're building. So one of the things that I think that would be the first place that I would go is I would change athletes goals. Cause we have this system where it's like to be an Olympian. And so we have this one, like in gymnastics, what they take six people to be on the Olympic team. There's 3000 people and that governing body. So how do you and the, and then there's like the secondary goals of going to college and, getting full scholarships. But I feel that if there was, we need more diversity in understanding of what the athletic goals are. And and that's where if we, if all of them are just the finite commodity that we have, like a created scarcity. So once you have scarcity, It creates fear and all these other decisions versus like when we don't all like, and that's where I feel like where you're like, your parents are pushing because they need something, that they can't afford to send you to college and they see this as the only way to go. And they're pressuring you in that direction. And it goes into this scarcity model, if at all, versus. I'm going to like, like having a pathway that's really truthful to open up for you in what the value of sport is. The discipline. It's the focus. It's the ability to show up for yourself. It's the ability to understand what pressure and performance is. No matter what level you're in. Those are all power developing and really self-esteem. Steam developing acts that are gonna rise you up. So when an event happens, that's out of like when you're being manipulated, right? So on the coach side, there's six spots to be an Olympian, that your easily manipulated because there's only a small goal. There's only a small amount of modernity is so small. So when you change that goal, that's where the power structure changes. And and then that's the piece on the parent, that's where the parents come in. That's where the athletes come in and then that's where the coach comes in and you can have extremely talented kid. And when you have these sort of finite rules of what you have to do and accomplish to be like in this school, senior group, it's I feel there, you can expand that because they can be extremely talented. And maybe they are talented enough to be an Olympian, but that's really not the path that they want to take with them, what they want. That's not what they want. You're not going to have integrity. And if you're not gonna have integrity, that lends itself to what door, a portal to abuse. So let me give you this hypothetical. And it's not even a hypothetical. It's what I see to be many truths. So take, for example, you have whole countries, the United States be it Russia, whomever. It is, there is a political, there is a winner take all, there is a important to the Olympic games. It is. It's white people. Dream of it's what whole countries? Dream of, how do we begin this shift from? Power non-truth as a culture. How do we begin that shift so that we can have more diversity in goals? So that a kid that is saying, look, I love the sport. I don't want to be this, D one athlete. I don't want to be, I just want to be in the sport. I want to be with my friends and I'm pretty good at it. How do we have diversity? How do we have room for that? If we're in a current culture that is nailbiting. My country has to be the Olympian. Mike, we have to be on top. Where do we begin with that? That's one, a loaded question, but let's where I'll start with this. So I, first of all, let's understand the structure of how sport runs globally. So there's really only two countries in the world that have independent or sport is not run through the government. And that is in Britain and the United States. So the rest of the world, actually their sport is very government focused in, in, in connected to the, in is connect. It's a, it's an extension of sort of government policy in that way. So it goes back to what are the core values of. And of the Olympic games and being an Olympian in there's fitter faster, stronger, so in how they are in Latin, I'll have to brush up on my Latin to be able to say those correctly. And so in, in my understanding of. What the value of the Olympics and the purpose of the Olympic games were, and certainly as a child. And certainly what I felt that I was being asked of was to rise up to my highest moral and ethical standard of self. And what that entails is. The discipline, the focus and the drive, which to me was meant to be a reflection of the people of that country. However, since capitalism, which changed in about 1776, we started was really 84 is when we started changing, from true amateur status, which cause that's what it was like the Olympic games were about true amateur status. It wasn't for financial gain. And then we shifted that. And at the same time of shifting that we also had. We had also the drug and, you sorta started to get developed at the end of the nineties and we started having to monitor cheating. So people who are yeah. Enhancing their physical body to become the best physical specimen of that sport. The, we need, and we spend a lot of money globally on a system to protect integrity of sport. And I feel that the fact that we need to protect it is because we aren't, all of us are out of integrity. Is the purpose and the drive behind sport, and I think that there's something with true like where the true passion is to be able to become the best version of yourself. That's where the pride is. That's what I feel is good about myself. And that's what I feel is athletic integrity to be the best version of yourself. And the way that we are set up right now is it's being defined with the outcome of accomplish, like the sort of a financial outcome or something like that. And I'm all about driving to be. Excellent in the best in the world, I find that a purposeful thing to do, but if we need to do it by cheating, then the goals are wrong and the power structures are wrong. And we need to reevaluate how sport, which is really considered a microcosm of the culture at large. And so we, so I would like to see. That's how I feel like we can all be in be driven with this. There's some there's truth in it. And it's also, there's a lot of new development sort of sport tech and everything that understand your body and enhancement of your body, but it's truly like your physical being like you can't like if. If we start adding in like tech stuff, that changes the human body. Then we've liked then that that's a whole separate podcast and conversation. I'll bring somebody on to talk about that, but, but I think for me, it's about being the best version of yourself and the system. And I see, as I talk about it is you have another person making a determination on the outcome of your life, especially on abuse. And we have too many people, too many cooks in the kicked in the kitchen. If you will. That are making a determination about what is appropriate coaching, what is not abuse and all that other stuff, which also at the same time, silences the other people around you versus getting back to, we shouldn't have to define or question abuse in the environment, because if you're questioning it's there versus has that athlete excelled to its highest level. Have we given it space? To Excel to its highest level in their desired accomplishment. Have we nurtured that passion? If we show them how to become. That version of their athlete, that they've visioned for them themselves. And we, as adults are responsible for doing that. And many coaches, they have so much love and they believe in these athletes that they rise them to levels that they never even thought that they were going to get to. And those are the coaches that we want to prop up. And, in those in, and as opposed to the system, that's really not assessing what the whole problem is. And we're putting in policies and we're putting in things that we're not even. Responding to appropriately or correctly, eventually, if so many fences that you can't move. I see that there's so many fences. When you look at some of the policies and codes of ethic, when you talk about, this, the us center for safe sport and the different national governing bodies, they implement these policies in reaction to different forms of abuse or stories of abuse that are disclosed or come out and they put in these fences. Now you we just talked about, I took oops. I took it out for a moment to look at how these out of alignment, the power structure, how it works, and we'll look on like the global stage. So we talked about that now we were talking about how, where do we start at that change? Where does it begin? Because as you were saying, even on a world stage and Olympic stage, if there's no integrity, there's no alignment. It's going to mirror what's going on. At all points in the system, the local club, the college structure, or the competing for the national team. If there's not integrity at the beginning, and there's not going to be one on the global stage. So say for athletes, if I can turn the corner a little bit, what is Safe4Athletes? What is their response to getting. Us back to integrity, getting athletes back to that so that we can, once you get to the world stage, You are in alignment with yourself. You do have a performance alignment. You do have a life alignment. You're not open. You're not, you're less vulnerable to abuse. What is Safe4Athletes doing for that? What's their kind of paradigm or their model. To tackle that issue. So a few things. So first we to be a safer athlete, we want teams to adopt our policies, which, and by adopting our policies, you're creating a culture within that sports program. And what that means is one part of the dynamics of our policies that require an athlete, welfare, every kid, either one or two, depending on the size of your team. And. As a result of having a locally-based athlete, welfare advocate, the athletes have the opportunity to be able to speak up when issues arise and they can go straight to them because there's often, there's reasons there's silencing factors, right? And some, you like some you don't. And every parent's probably going to cringe when you, when it's my kid's going to come to me. And it's you know what? There's moments where your kid isn't going to come to you. And. And it's not as a bad thing. It's let someone else help craft them and help that underscore have conversations so they can come to you. As opposed to cause if you're in so much fear, And you haven't you're a young person and you're trying to assess the situation. You don't have, like the language, the articulation, and you really don't often understand even the experience. So you need someone to help you define the picture if you will. And we'd rather have it out of the system versus the athlete having to not speak. And that's why, why it's important to have safer athletes and even in situation. So that's when, so the parents are like, no, but then you have situations. The way the system is set up right now is there's sort of board chairs and you can go pitch your story to, the regional person and say, what's going on. But, and then it becomes evaluated on how egregious it is or, what, how's it affecting, sort of other people and how many people, and if it's just you it becomes this sort of collective it's not based on. One experience often. And it's also based on resources on the ability to take action against that particular issue, where if you were to be a safer athletes club, the value is that it's locally based. And so these little issues that are happening where. You start seeing events of coaches that are getting friendly with a certain group of gals, or there's some unusual behavior that, that you see it, but there's you brush it off because. The distance between you and a complaint, and the idea of it being responded to is too far away. And so how do you bring it back in? You become a safer athletes club, you have policies, you have clarity, you have procedures, you have PR contact, and you also have the ability to come to say for athletes, And you have the ability to for us to help you dissect those problems. And I've, I'm, well-versed in athletic problems and usually can get to them very quickly and succinctly to be able to, draw and help guide in the direction that they need to go. And that's the thing. People feel powerless. And, and it's also, when you see your, when you see your child gets so much love and passion from whether they're developing socially, whether developing talent wise you want to foster that and you don't want to take that away from them. And because of that, we, and because of the way that the system, the distance between. Where you're at and where a complaint's gonna go in for change is so far away that you start tolerating. And as soon as you start tolerating is when the people that are causing the unrest, whether it's the coach, whether it's other athletes, whether their thing, it just grows. And so that's what the value of say for athletes is we go back to you, have, you are now the power of your own environment. Like you have the decision to make, to take action. And then there's a process to be able to go through it and the outcome. And it doesn't undercut or change whether you want to report to the NGB or the sport or the center. All of those things continue to go. But what it does is it changes action. Immediately. And so if the club needs to remove a coach, for example, because they're going down this path, they have this structure and the policies to be able to, point to, to be able to go in that direction. And they have the ability to change things and bring in new training, or like our club needs this kind of training or our coaches need some sort of training from safe Radley's cause we were, we have training for parents. We have. Webinars seminars, all that stuff that we'll continue to develop for parents, coaches, and athletes and teams, to be able to be in that environment where multiple people can have you have, you've got to move a ship of integrity. You're moving like a community of integrity together, and that's the point of say for athletes is let's take all of these kids. Let's develop them in my. Intention with all of this is to be able to, a lot of people walk away from sport and pain, lack of UCOP, whatever the case may be. They're just, some of it is just grief because you lost a youth like your youth has done, in some, like in that part. And they S and many athletes struggle. They struggle in life, and they're really the strongest people. And I want to be able to help them transition. Through all phases of their athletic career, including into their career world, where they have been, they have the system supported them and they had the voice and they had the ability to do that. And they learned how to do that because once you're able to learn how to do that, when you step into an adult, when you're in the workforce, you're going to hear they're strong managers are strong people and, the majority of people are going to be in that position to respond to somebody in the workforce. I want to set you up to feel that part of you, that athletic drive, that athletic focus, that discipline and your ability to know and read situations. Has been developed through being a safer athletes team and club. And what have you. And to me, that's about giving the power back to the athlete. Yeah, it sounds like Katherine, if we don't do this, if we don't get safer athletes into clubs, we're going to continue on this path on this course of a wicked imbalancement of power. And we're going to miss out on a society. Of another generation of athletes that are athletes within, but had they been properly in integrity, we're going to miss out in our workforce. We're going to miss out in, when we play, we're going to miss out on that human spirit. You know that drive that's in integrity. I can only imagine what that really looks like when it's set and when it's healthy. And it sounds like what you were also saying, is that the way, and I want it to be clear and connect, correct me if I'm getting it wrong, the way that we get back on both, it doesn't matter what stage global national is by starting at the local level, starting at the club level, starting at the grass grassroots. It sounds like that's how we. Get back. And you were saying when you were just talking about athletes. Who are, throughout their lifelong journey, if they're not in integrity, you know how that can cause problems. It reminds me of one of the stories in your book, where you were talking about how, when you were in Florida at the time, and you were the poster child for the sport, but it seems like you were not in integrity with yourself. Is, am I remembering that story? Correct? Yeah, no, I absolutely was not in integrity with myself. I'm going towards the darkness. I'm, my choices were partying. And it was like, and I couldn't wrap myself to and bring myself to do that to be in discipline. And before we, we spoke out there's the. My, my mantra for the week, if you will, is that there's two types of pain and there's the pain of discipline and there's the pain of regret. And I was, I chose the pain of regret. And, and as much as I, I feel that I've transformed much of my life and to be able to be in the, to take on the pain of discipline. However, it's like sitting on the couch late at night and it's are you going to go? Is the, the. It's your, is food calling you or or are you going to have a discipline moment? It's work in progress. And, but the, and I had lost all faith in myself and in the world in I just had, was so disillusioned that I felt that discipline wasn't hadn't served me. And wow. And I think that's the, it's the wrong message. Cause it really, it does. But if the system allows the way it's been set up, that's the message you're going to get on the other end. So many, I feel. I feel grateful that, I'm not pushing a shopping cart because frankly my life was set up to go in that direction with the amount of trauma and the amount of abuse and my own self abuse, because all I knew was when, to re to reconnect to that abuse it's he couldn't, it was so strong. Like it's so painful and. And so like the lesson that I was taught was, just life is painful. You might as well, give up and I want to be able to say, no, I didn't give up. And I believe in a whole generation and I believe in the human spirit and I believe in your dreams and I believe in you. And that's why I started say for athletes. That's why I started, going down this path. It's my it's my, I'm a very caring person. And I love to see people thrive to find their highest self. And want to be part of, everyone's like a new generation's success, and be their biggest fan. And I want to follow the athletes that come through say for athletes, which I hope it would change the whole family dynamic. And everybody becomes stronger, not just their kids in a safe athlete's environment, but the whole family unit and, the coaches become better coaches and. And we're able to weed out any, all the bad actors at an earlier phase. Like we, we catch it and and to me, I, I just love witnessing and watching the growth of passion. Within an athlete, there's nothing more fulfilling about it. And so that's why say for athletes is so important to me and it's not, it's like when we talk about preventing sexual abuse it's, I flipped the conversation and to say, I want to inspire, inspire these athletes and, and it's somewhat becomes a thankless job in the sense that the work that we do is going to prevent. Harm, but I want you to find joy. And that for me is if I can be any, if I can be a cat catalyst to, to bring that to this young group, then they're going to no, what it is. And they're going to be able to repeat it and maintain it and see the importance for when they become older and have their families. And. For, and for the more, but yeah, it has to what you're saying, this has to happen because the alternative is more of the same, more reports of sexual abuse, physical abuse. We've all heard it. We've all seen it. I practice with it. I'm fine. I hope safer athletes. Everyone becomes a safer athletes club and I put this part of my practice out of business and I'll find something else to do. So I love it. You'll be watching the, you'll be like in with safe, rapid, like creating joy. It's to me, that's just like, when you want to foster, like you want to sponsor that passion. And I know from that little girl in me, little Anabel, She like just the love that she had for her sport. And we talk about older people, Oh, I just want to be the eight year old passionate person again, I'm like, this is how we do it. I want you to know we've sport in the same passion that you came with. And and that to me is just, like I have just so much love for the value and of our gifts. And I just know personally, Like the depth of that love that I have within me is it just is a better way to go in life. And I know the hard path that's I did that and and so now let's make this path. Let's make this a more cheerful path. That's what I say, definitely. I don't know how, honestly, a better way to end. I think you encapsulate everything. We're trying to say everything. Safer athletes stands for. What if w and like I just said, if we don't pick this model, the safer athletes model, we are going to miss out. We as a culture, we, a community, a town, a gym, Whatever, whatever space or you want to call it, we're going to miss out if we don't select this. So I don't know. Is there anything else you wanted to cover? I think we've touched on everything. We've touched on a really powerful message. We have to all be an integrity because you know what, at the end of the day, I would rather be sitting next to on the train, a former whatever athlete that's in integrity with themselves. And they're now happy than sitting next to an athlete who has been out of integrity because the world is never. Served when any of us athletes or whomever out of integrity, I don't know. Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on or you thought was important? I think we've, I would doubt it. I think I would just say go to Safe4Athletes.org and say for athletes club we set up a 15 minute consultation, learn about it and learn how to come on board. And we are excited for you to join us and. In every everywhere. So don't any sport anywhere we will, we have a program for you and we'll get you. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Until our next conversation. Thank you. Thank you.